- #47 [K66], 21-04-20 16:02個人覺得HDMI先係現今嘅萬能傳送介面,i2S純粹只係個人欣賞佢係將data同clock訊號分離傳輸嘅設計啫,線同傳送方式嘅問題,到此為止,唔好搞到大家好似喺度上緊科學堂咁,不如返番我個題目講返正題好過啦。
- #46 [長長影子], 21-04-20 11:43話時話樓主對 I2S 咁有興趣,甚至到去了解導體嘅層次及時差問題,反正都已經有 3rd party 對 I2S 做咗測試 report,用 I2S 飛利浦都有錢落袋,大家又可以好好睇吓内文寫乜,討論吓 PS AUDIO 話用 I2S I/F 係咪可能又係一個騙局。 又或者留返俾啲後生去研究多十年八年睇下係咪騙局先。
"Conclusions
It is remarkable how as non-technical audiophiles, we quickly play engineer and decide what is technically better. "Oh, the clock is separate in I²S so it must sound better." Do you even know what a clock is? How about clock skew? How about perils of taking a standard for moving an inch or two inside some gear and making it travel dozens of inches externally? You think that doesn't do anything bad?
If you want to use lay assumptions, think of how S/PDIF is decades old and by now, folks have figured out pretty well how to extract the clock out of it and deliver excellent performance. Such is the case here. S/PDIF has universal compatibility to boot which I²S does not have.
So Paul McGowan, please don't spread misinformation about I²S sounding better. Start by showing us measurements that demonstrate anything improving and if so, why PS Audio gear doesn't have good enough S/PDIF performance to need something better. And then, point the camera at yourself, connect both inputs to your DAC and have someone else switch inputs and see if you can tell the difference. Since levels don't change, it is dead simple to conduct a blind test.
Bottom line, please don't rely on fantasies like I²S improving audio performance. Insist on measurements being provided to demonstrate audible change in the output of the DAC -- the thing you hear. Don't accept hand gestures as evidence. And certainly not any appeal to a lay person's intuition as a replacement for proper data providing proof."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/study-is-i%C2%B2s-interface-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/
最後修改時間: 2021-04-20 11:57:53 - #45 [mcc2018], 21-04-20 11:06Thanks for sharing, 啱既 aes67起碼用 tcp/ip, 不像 i2s/spdif行 isochronous mode, 冇 error correction coding, emi/emc/ems 在音响方面的 paper大部份看過,不過自己主力係電力輸送尤以HVDC為主,那種 grounding requirement是有特別要求,也許某些地方的soil impedance對音响用户有所影响吧。
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- #44 [長長影子], 21-04-20 10:48AES 就梗係唔會推 I2S 畀錢飛利浦賺專利費喇。 來來去去都仲係 reaffirmed AES3-1-4 2009。 AES 近年都係玩 AES67 嗰類嘢。
你對 EMI/EMC 有興趣多啲嘅話喱啲可能啱你:
AES48-2019 AES standard on interconnections — Grounding and EMC practices — Shields of connectors in audio equipment containing active circuitry, has been published.
AES48 specifies requirements for the termination, within audio equipment, of the shields of cables supporting interconnections with other equipment, taking into account measures commonly necessary for the preservation of EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) at both audio and radio frequencies.
This standard specifies requirements for the connections of the designated shield contact of connectors built into audio equipment using active circuitry. These requirements are necessary for the preservation of electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) at both audio and radio frequencies.
最後修改時間: 2021-04-20 10:53:05 - #43 [mcc2018], 21-04-20 10:38非常有趣,這種13w3 port, 其實係古代 Sun Sparc機的 vga port, I2S好似係跟著時代走,有乜新嘢就用乜,咁對音响標準係一個問題,AES怎看?
- #42 [長長影子], 21-04-20 10:24我部陳年血滴子咪就係用喱種 cable I/F。
- #41 [mcc2018], 21-04-20 10:14其實 I2S個標準都幾混亂,曾經見過如下圖般的13w3-I2S(Sun computer 專用), 也有用 hdmi, 另外Motorola dsp 也有用 i2s標準的 enhanced serial audio interface (ESAI), 真係百花齊放,好難搞。
- #40 [長長影子], 21-04-20 09:34加 differential line driver 係可以增加 I2S 傳送距離,但問題係會增加 I2S 嘅 jitter,仲要喺後面 align 返 data/clk。 不如設計好啲後面嘅 FIFO/SRC, etc,不過我諗 PS Audio 未算先驅,當年嘅 sonic frontiers 都已經有用 I2S I/F 去連接 CD transport > DAC,不過當年都仲未有 HDMI 線,只能用佢跟機專用嘅 I2S cable (其實要搵都係可以搵得到),PS Audio 算係將 I2S 拉出嚟嘅應用普及化,I2S 當年由飛利浦發明,用 I2S I/F 係要畀 PHILIPS 權利金。
對 I2S、S/PDIF 有興趣可以睇吓以下比較:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/study-is-i%C2%B2s-interface-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/
最後修改時間: 2021-04-20 09:40:35 - #39 [K66], 21-04-20 09:12其實i2S方式係可以行長距離嘅,只要你肯改為用HDMI介面設計和摩改 ...一定冇問題,PS Audio 阿Paul一早有推介,所以佢算係一個真正先驅,可惜到現時為止都唔會有一個官方嘅統一介面標準。
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/164366-i2s-standards-ps-audio.html
最後修改時間: 2021-04-20 09:19:40 - #38 [yt], 21-04-20 01:03謝謝兩位師兄回覆,小弟明白了。
- #37 [長長影子], 21-04-20 00:08I2S 並非完美,只適合好短距離嘅傳輸。 類似嘅 topic 及 jitter 以前其實已經講過好幾次亦分享過自己一啲量測數據做例子,另外器材之間嘅地電位差及感應電流流過 cable 亦容易 induce periodic jitter 引起失真其實影響都好大,喱啲 factors 基本上都透過儀器去量化,可以先參考之前其中一個 post,有需要先至再補充。
https://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=37140322235406&item=&page=1
https://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=67100328210700&item=&page=2
最後修改時間: 2021-04-20 00:15:59 - #36 [K66], 21-04-19 23:47#35 YT兄
其實數碼信號轉輸過程不只係0同1,唔好忘記仲有不同質地嘅導體如純銀,鍍銀,銅,金等等,再加上用邊種幾何結構又或有冇幾何結構等,所以就會送埋不同程度嘅時差問題俾你耳仔囉,時差問題一早發現有亦係一定會存在,就算幾靚嘅線都會有多或有少,I2S叫做接近完美,因為設計係data同clock同步傳輸同埋接收處理。 - #35 [yt], 21-04-19 23:06影子兄。有個問題想請教你,請問為什麼不同的數碼線會出現不同的音效呢?呢個問題我想了很多年了,總沒法攪通。
- #34 [長長影子], 21-04-19 21:30"都係算把啦。。。。都無人講MQA。。。。。。。。"
<- 兄台講得咁有霸氣,仲有邊個敢出聲。 :-P - #33 [mcc2018], 21-04-19 21:27#29 盡公民責任,扺讚,話時話 +X哥 92歲都打新科技,閣下不會比佢年長吧,不過那一款也不是問題,希望明年有新 version,打一嘢搞掂。
- #32 [長長影子], 21-04-19 21:08
- #31 [yt], 21-04-19 20:10zoltm你好
我用dCS Vivaldi 4件 - #30 [zoltm], 21-04-19 19:55#28 yt 師兄,借問聲你是用咩架餐來播放 MQA CD?
- #29 [DYreal], 21-04-19 19:50#13
兩針都打曬啦,老人家梗係信啲傳統嘅技術。
新科技都係留返啲後生去冒險。
最後修改時間: 2021-04-19 19:53:16 - #28 [yt], 21-04-19 19:29都係算把啦。。。。都無人講MQA。。。。。。。。
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