大埔帝欣苑

Dream place to play hifi

"1:1.4:1.9空間比例是否較易產生RT60=（0.161×V）/A,計算時是否需要加上真實使用揚聲器頻率曲線特性,有無Software可配合計算?"

＜-黃金比例等等只係針對最簡單及常見嘰長方形嘰聆聽環境的建議值用黎所謂"錯開"駐波頻率避免早段駐波頻率容易重鉦ㄔ侲加，用黎減低駐波嘰影響，只能減低影響無辦法解決。可以想像一下你放一個物件o係兩面平行嘰鏡面之間會出現無限個反射影象，當了解駐波嘰成因就會明白點解喱個就係黃金比例長方形空間嘰死穴。除左長闊高比率響設計時所需要符合相關規格範圍之內，Recommended room ratios and size一般只供設計參考，特別係長方形嘰最基本設計。係宜家設計技術比以前先進好多，可以用針對三維曲線來做有限尺寸內嘰最佳化設計，當相關電腦運算能力嘰幫助亦很重要。我以前所設計過嘰聆聽室亦都只用左多種不平行面嘰組合黎設計去符合相關規格。至於三維曲線曲面嘰最佳化設計由於施工較困難，可能等來有機會先至可實現。若一定要比較黃金比例相對等長嘰設計，o係設計時一開始時同後期調整上亦會比較容易處理低頻過長嘰殘響值。計算殘響時唔需要喇叭曲線特性，因為殘響只係空間環境嘰參數。但若要準確量測殘響時需要用到omni-source嘰喇叭並要多點量測黎計算平均值。殘響嘰計算軟體網上有好多，計算方法亦有好多種有易有難，初玩嘰可以用之前個site嘰equation，如果要深入了解複雜嘰環鏡可以用光追法什至用有限元素法或邊界元素法等工具，但無論用邊種方法經驗唔夠時實制材料參數比較難同模擬結果做接合，我自己習慣用自己寫嘰programme黎計，靈活性比較高。

所以由此可以知道1/3嘰方法可以考參但亦要參考喇叭本身嘰Q值等資料黎評估離牆嘰距離對低頻曲線嘰影響，最快最好當然係先用電腦模擬黎縮細範圍，然後再用量測嘰方法黎搵出最佳放置位置喇叭同聆聽位置。

實制上能夠真真正正符合規格的聆聽室並不多，我個人經驗認為有處理嘰空間唔少，但能真正符合嘰環境少之有少。當然能符合嘰聆聽環境之間嘰落差有限亦差唔得去邊。另外發燒友upgrade器材線材電源等可以改善音質，但要小心嘰係較難有足夠嘰了解，當中可能中左商業啅頭，就好似對各部份嘰update覺得有改善，但update後究竟大約仲有幾多可以改善嘰空間? 改善嘰真正原因係唔係真正了解? 即使很多因素唔係錢可以直接解決，但現實中玩音響最後都係所有最主觀因素主導。

According to my experience, the Acoustic Room Golden Rule in some way is correct but not all; much depends on equipment used and placement of speakers. In many Recording Studios built according to the Rule, I can't find the reproduce sound effect better than a common residental living room or that from a headphone.

I totally satisfied with the sound effect produced by my Quad esl-63 speakers in a small room no more than 100 sq.ft but can't get a satisfactory effect from a 450 sq.ft. living room no matter used what placement of the speakers and used different amplifiers to push the speakers.
The thing is just reverse when I use a pair of Altec 604-B speakers. It plays not much better than the sound from a table radio when in the 100 sq.ft. small room but reproduce exactly the Voice of Theatre when in the 450 sq.ft living room.

So, the real fun of getting satisfatory acoustic sound effect from a room is by trial and error and much important: Use correct sound reproduce gears.

其實我之前試過limage師傅所講, 將喇叭調轉向窗. 皇帝位o係窗果邊, 音場 & 音效的確闊 & 深好多. 動態氣勢更加強橫....

但之前所講. 要同屋企老闆交代, 所以唯有作出妥協呢..

Morning racewong,

My placement should be considered one exception rather than the norm. In most cases, howver, the ratio of 40-60 usually produces excellent results. That is not too far away from 1/3 then.

hi...limage師傅..^^

你間hi-fi房 & dd-san既長廳當然係一個好好既示範單位.

我都想好似你間hi-fi房咁糧漭z.. 但由於要同屋企老闆交代, 所以唯有作出妥協呢...＞_＜

p.s. 好想去多次你間hi-fi房, 聽多次屏風既頂級音效呢...^^

I used to be a faithful follower of this rule of one third when I started my audio journey years ago. Yet upon innumerable trial and error, both in rooms of mine as well as many others, this one-third position turns out to be valuable only as a reference point from which to start the exercise. The optimum position, more often than not, in fact deviates from this reference by a margin ranging from the moderate to the near absurd.

Room acoustics can be far more complex than what the present technology is able to cope with, yet.

By the way, I am afraid the live-end-dead-end theory is pure bull shit and very much obsolete by now.

如果以飾品櫃為尾, 我依家既礎麭ㄚY將長廳分為三份...^^

音場平均分佈o係喇叭後, 分隔度 & 定位會更加準確.

長長影子兄,
1:1.4:1.9空間比例是否較易產生RT60=（0.161×V）/A,計算時是否需要加上真實使用揚聲器頻率曲線特性,有無Software可配合計算?

From: 喇叭礎鴘滲u相

圖3與圖3.1是1/3礎鴟肊迠﹞漯漯蔭g波和反射波，以及時間等的層次和效果。會使音場，定位音像都比較清晰，如果吸音，擴散和空間處理得好，可以增加音場的立體感。

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/200307/32.jpg

If your are interested... pls view the complete article at:

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/200307/chen0307.htm

From: 喇叭礎鴘滲u相

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/200307/chen0307.htm

From: 空間大作戰【三】

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/200401/chen0401.htm

From: 空間大作戰【一】

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/200309/chen0309.htm

Dear R33 fans,

I find some articles that may helpful, the one talking about "世界公認、推薦的一些理想環境空間的比例。發燒友打造一間音響室時，如果能參照這些比例尺寸規劃，空間處理將事半平" is from ◎空間大作戰【二】◎《新音響雜誌2003年十一月號》

Happy sharing!


本專欄轉摘自 新音響 雜誌之【陳博士講座】專欄
文：陳湘允

http://www.ks-hifi.com/dr.chen/dr-chen.htm

◎肉骨茶與榴蓮◎《新音響雜誌2003年六月號》
◎喇叭礎鴘滲u相◎《新音響雜誌2003年七月號》
◎你知道室內殘響時間嗎？◎《新音響雜誌2003年八月號》
◎空間大作戰【一】◎《新音響雜誌2003年九月號》
◎空間大作戰【二】◎《新音響雜誌2003年十一月號》
◎空間大作戰【三】◎《新音響雜誌2004年一月號》

Good afternoon everyone,

I would agree with hakman largely, with a slight revision perhaps on the priorities.

First and foremost are the room and speaker placement. The two in tandem account for over 60 % of the overall performance of the whole system. With the same audio gear, one only needs to experiment with different rooms and/or placements of the speakers to appreciate the enormous magnitude of room effects.

Second in importance is the infra structure which include power line fabrication, shielding, cable interference and last but not least, perfection of all contact surfaces.

Electronics can at best be the third in importance. Regrettably, this is the very area where audiophiles usually spend the most of their money and efforts.......

good ! agree ! so money is not everything.
hi fi not equal to hi end (or high price)

若將 Hi-Fi 比喻成樂器，有好多人花很多時間心血去改良或調整出極高質素嘰樂器，當然同一個樂器O係一流嘰音樂廳發出嘰聲音同O係一般家庭環境嘰音質會有極大嘰差異。空間對整體音質嘰影響不言而喻。如何去調整Hi-Fi或聆聽空間當中亦牽涉到好多唔同領域嘰 know-how 及很多 key factors。若先排除主觀嘰個人喜好，真聲嘰標準亦需要靠好多客觀嘰科學分析歸納並配合量測數據去佐證，當然現實很多因素包括空間處理及量測調整也不是一般發燒友能夠掌握。好容易被流言誤導而墮落商業陷阱。

發燒友已認識到，靚聲是由幾個重要因素配合而成，一是器材素質，二是聆聽環境的配合，三是要有純淨的電源，四是調校技術，缺少任何一環的配合也難以靚聲，有誰敢說他已試盡天下器材，他的結論和評價一定正確嗎？你又知道他們會否牽涉到一些商業利益在內嗎？器材組合是千變萬化，效果難以預測，未經實試更難以作出定論。

或者這樣???

各位弟兄,
過多幾個月小弟就將會搬入新居 (舊型宿舍)
我曾看過間樓，有個OK大的廳，希望可發揮Harbeth 超五的實力
一個超長方形廳(客廳加飯廳)，未用尺量過，約33-35 x 16-18呎以上
客廳面積約350-400呎 (22-28 x 16-18 呎)，客廳的闊度，和我現住的德福的廳的長度差不多，客廳高度10-11呎

但不幸是...... 客廳的尾端連接大露台，有個玻璃大門，即那邊不能放電視

暫時有想過影音再分開
AV系統取客廳的闊度
HiFi取客廳的長度，Harbeth 放在接近露台那邊離露台門一、兩米，中間仍留門口出露台

有無意見呢？